Since we're talking about cooperation...

What about it? Are there parameters...guidelines that will help us determine as a church who we'll cooperate with for kingdom efforts? Should there be guidelines?

I welcome your response to the following:

Cooperation under the Old Covenant

• Israel was to be separate from foriegn nations
• False prophets were railed upon...not cooperated with...even those who were prophesying in the name of Yahweh.

Cooperation under the New Covenant:

• Perhaps Jesus' strongest rebukes were directed at the religious leaders of the day who refused to believe in Him as the way, the truth and the life.
• Instead of joining up with the religious establishment in order to go mainstream...Jesus went counter to the entire, corrupt lot of them.
• Paul called Judaizers dogs. (people who were teaching that one had to adhere to certain Old Covenant laws in order to be saved)
• Paul said to come out and be separate from unbelievers...and certainly he meant more than just unequal yoking in marriage
• Paul railed against those who added works to grace as a prerequisite for salvation
• Paul railed against those who added or distorted scripture
• Peter and Jude railed against false teachers who were misusing the grace of God

So what of us? For the sake of cooperation and unity and community involvement and evangelism...should we go against the flow of the pattern of the godly leaders in scripture, including Jesus, and join up with those institutions, denominations, etc...who name the name of Jesus but are teaching error on one or more essential doctrines?

What are the lines of ecclesiastical separation? Are there any?

Should an evangelical, bible believing church that believes rightly on the essentials of the faith link up with say a Catholic or Lutheran church, for instance, for evangelistic purposes...even though both institutions teach justification by baptism?

What are the lines of ecclesiastical separation? Again...are there any?

What about those institutions that are radically Charismatic...teaching health and wealth and a prayer hanky for the right price? Should we join with them for kingdom purposes? Just asking.

What are the lines of ecclesiastical separation? Are there any?

I grew up in a fundamentalist, independant Baptist church. Gosh, they separated from other churches for good things....and a lot of really stupid things. Some of the more stupid reasons are as follows:

• Appearance - if a church didn't teach short hair for men, long dresses for women...it was a church to avoid at all costs
• Style - if a church didn't limit it's music style to hymns and classical music...it was a church that was definately liberal and needed to be avoided
• Non-essential doctrines - mode of baptism; what one believed about sign gifts (healing, tongues, etc.); eschatology...and the list goes on.

I'm not talking about stupid separation...that's worn as a prideful badge of honor. I'm referring to what seems to be a clearly biblical concept.

So I ask one more time: What are the lines of ecclesiastical separation? Are there any?

Free Will?

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Before the Fall:

1. Humans had the built in, innate ability to choose to continue in their innocence...or to disobey.
2. Humans pleased God with their continual free choice to obey...until they freely chose not to obey.

After the Fall:

1. The Fall changed the free will dynamic.
2. The result of Adam and Eve's choice to sin was the loss of innocence...and the loss of spiritual life.
3. The first thing Adam and Eve freely chose to do after the Fall was to run from God and hide. God had to come looking for them.
4. In the context of God's giving out the Curse...He also provided a hint at a provision that was coming someday...a provision that would be initiated by the Creator (Gen.3:15).
5. One of the net effects of the giving of the Law of God to Israel was to make clear that humans are incapable of pleasing their way back into favor with God...by their own free choice. Humans proved themselves failures in the light of God's law. Even those who by their free choice decided to follow it (Ex.19:3-8) ended up totally failing.
6. The Old Testament could be read, one might argue, both as a display of the failure of humans as they consistently and freely chose to change, forget, distort and disobey God's Law... and it could be read as the story of the continually unfolding - from veiled hint to reality - God's free choice to pursue humanity with a view to redemption.
7. In the New Testament we see Jesus as the fulfillment of all that had been hinted at and prophesied about in the Old Testament. God was indeed the One who came to "seek and save the lost."

So what about Free Will in the modern context?
1. Humans are spiritually dead...that is, our Free Choices even are rooted in selfishness and pride.
2. Humans left to themselves will, like Adam and Eve, continually run from a holy God (Rom.1).
3. Humans must be awakened to the truth of the gospel by the work of the Holy Spirit by means of the hearing of the Word of God.
4. Humans are called upon to make a free choice to follow Jesus...and, if they so choose to believe and follow Him - becoming His disciple -they subsequently find out that it was "not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy" (Rom.9:16) and that even their repentance and faith are a gift from God so they can never boast (Eph.2:8-9).

What follows is a quote from the Holman Christian Standard Bible: Everyone Can Receive the Gift - New Testament:

"Why Me? Why Now? How God draws you to Himself
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws Him." John 6:44

"Calling your conversion experience a decision for Christ doesn't begin to convey the truth of the matter. Yes, you made a decision based on your own free will. Yes, you were perfectly free to make a different choice than you did. But look at the whole thing on balance-from God's perspective-and suddenly your decision to follow Jesus looks a lot less like a bold move on your part and a lot more like a stunning victory on His part. He fashioned everything there is about you in His own mind. He set you in a particular time and place. He's been carefully arranging people, situations, and events in your life, waving His arms in front of your face, pleading with you to look back, to see the cross, to know the love that paid every last dime on your escalating debt of sins, to experience more freedom and joy and peace and contentment than you ever thought possible. Looks like your hardest decision was trying to say no all this time."

Should you desire more thought provoking reading on this subject please consider looking up the link on Pastor Rick's blog www.roadwetravel.blogspot.com or check out the following article by Martin Luther at the following link: http://www.reformedreader.org/bow.htm

Look forward to your insights or comments that you make by your own free choice. :)

Longing

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What do you find yourself longing for?

I had a conversation today with someone about longing for heaven while still being rooted on the earth.

A few questions:

Why do we long for heaven most when things get tough?

Is it possible to have that same longing...even when things are going well?

Is it a lie to say we long for Jesus...yet find such pleasure in earthly things?

Is it possible to passionately long for heaven and yet intensely enjoy God's good gifts here?

Is it possible, as Piper talks about, to see each earthly pleasure as something that points to the worth and value of Christ?

Just thought I'd ask.

James

Welcome to my blog

Welcome to my blog spot. I intend to use this site to serve the following purposes: Keep you informed about issues related to generate (activities; service and outreach opportunities). Provide a forum where we can sharpen each other in what we believe and how we live it out. Of course, as the potentate of this little cyber-island I may choose to talk about other things as well. Thanks for stopping by. Look forward to hearing from you soon. Welcome! James Hunt